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Chat with Lynne – 2 (Account date)

August 10, 2009

[2:18:53 PM] KK says: Good Morning Lynne
[2:19:35 PM] Lynne Shelton says: Morning KK, how are you?
[2:19:49 PM] KK says: I am fine.
[2:19:54 PM] Lynne Shelton says: Good 🙂
[2:19:57 PM] KK says: I am working on the document on invoice transactions
[2:20:04 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ahhh yes
[2:20:29 PM] KK says: I need some more time to come to one conclusion
[2:20:40 PM] KK says: before that I need one clarification from you
[2:20:43 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok
[2:20:55 PM] KK says: Invoice SIN11243
[2:21:05 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[2:21:16 PM] KK says: Have you set the account date to 2nd august?
[2:21:27 PM] KK says: sorry 1st
[2:22:01 PM] KK says: it has invoice date 25th july but account date to 1st august
[2:23:07 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, we did not do anything with the account date on this one . . . the date seems to have come from the sales order . . . I shall explain how this happened
[2:23:17 PM] KK says: ok
[2:23:21 PM] Lynne Shelton says: The customer came in and placed an order for August . .
[2:23:35 PM] Lynne Shelton says: but because he did not have an account, he had to pay straight away
[2:23:57 PM] Lynne Shelton says: so Shrewsbury raised an invoice for the amount so that he knew how much to pay
[2:24:21 PM] Lynne Shelton says: . . .the order was put on the system dated for August as that is when the delivery would be
[2:24:42 PM] Lynne Shelton says: . . . the invoice was dated 25/07/07 as that was the date it was raised and paid . . .
[2:25:14 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ahhhh
[2:25:19 PM] Lynne Shelton says: thinking now
[2:27:08 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, going to have a word with Wendy about this . . I think we may have to change how we do things on this one
[2:27:20 PM] Lynne Shelton says: have you ever heard the term ‘pro-forma’?
[2:27:33 PM] KK says: I heard
[2:27:54 PM] KK says: I know about pro forma invoice
[2:27:57 PM] Lynne Shelton says: this is what is happening, payment before receipt of goods . . . then it will post to the date of delivery
[2:28:17 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I think we should keep the order date the same as the invoice date . . regardless of delivery date
[2:28:30 PM] Lynne Shelton says: will discuss with Wendy why we do this and any implications and will get back to you
[2:29:04 PM] KK says: also let me know how invoice having the Account date as 1st august
[2:29:26 PM] Lynne Shelton says: don’t know, this just appears on the invoice . . it isn’t anything we do .. . .. Compiere does it
[2:30:00 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I assume if we put the order on for 1st August as delivery date, then the invoice will automatically pick up 1st as account date
[2:30:28 PM] KK says: it will pick the order date
[2:30:31 PM] Lynne Shelton says: if we then change the invoice date to today, lets say, then the invoice date changes but the account date stays the same . . hence the weird posting
[2:30:32 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[2:30:46 PM] KK says: no
[2:30:52 PM] Lynne Shelton says: oh
[2:31:02 PM] KK says: if you change the invoice date it will automatically change the account date
[2:31:20 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ahhh
[2:31:23 PM] KK says: but if you change the account date it will not affect invoice date
[2:31:33 PM] Lynne Shelton says: so it must be something that happens after the invoice is raised then
[2:32:10 PM] KK says: when you will open the month
[2:32:16 PM] KK says: I mean period
[2:32:40 PM] KK says: or when did you open the august month period?
[2:32:56 PM] Lynne Shelton says: we opened August on 11th July
[2:33:12 PM] KK says: ok
[2:33:17 PM] Lynne Shelton says: but previously we didn’t do this, this is the first time we have done this . . .
[2:33:27 PM] Lynne Shelton says: all other months were opened on the day before the month started
[2:33:49 PM] KK says: ok
[2:34:42 PM] Lynne Shelton says: you do know that the account date can change even after the invoice is completed?
[2:35:18 PM] KK says: no it cant be changed..but if you raise cash journal it will change
[2:35:30 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ahhhh
[2:35:35 PM] Lynne Shelton says: it gets worse
[2:35:56 PM] KK says: when you raise cash journal from invoice window..it will ask you the account date
[2:36:04 PM] KK says: by default it will have the invoice account date
[2:36:29 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes, you are right . . . it never occured to me before
[2:36:32 PM] KK says: if you change the account date in the form then it will update the invoice account date to new account date
[2:37:03 PM] Lynne Shelton says: so the question there is in which period does it post
[2:37:23 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I will check cash journal invoices over the past few days and see how they have posted
[2:37:25 PM] KK says: using accoutn date
[2:37:37 PM] KK says: I mean account period
[2:37:50 PM] Lynne Shelton says: once a transaction has posted, will that change?
[2:38:09 PM] Lynne Shelton says: If the invoice has already posted for example, and then we move the cash journal . . .
[2:38:14 PM] KK says: if you respost then it will change otherwise it remains same
[2:38:33 PM] Lynne Shelton says: you are right, just thought about that . . . bit slow this morning! sorry!
[2:40:29 PM] KK says: no problem
[2:42:18 PM] KK says: I have examined all the invoices which you have mentioned..finally I can provide you the solution for this task
[2:42:36 PM] KK says: but still I am little bit confused hoe the date have been changed
[2:42:50 PM] Lynne Shelton says: it isn’t anything that we do
[2:43:01 PM] Lynne Shelton says: we do not change the account date, not deliberately
[2:43:09 PM] Lynne Shelton says: we never go in and change the account date  . . .
[2:43:20 PM] KK says: I understand..
[2:43:22 PM] Lynne Shelton says: let me just ask wendy about that, just to be certain
[2:43:25 PM] Lynne Shelton says: one sec
[2:44:02 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I will have to go and see her . . . won’t be a minute
[2:44:31 PM] KK says: ok
[2:52:33 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, have spoken to Wendy and we never, ever change the account date manually
[2:53:14 PM] KK says: ok.. that is why I am confused why the invoice having diffrent date
[2:53:40 PM] KK says: I am just finding the possiblity
[2:53:52 PM] Lynne Shelton says: it looks to me like the account date changes to match the order date . . I think it could be something to do with the goods being shipped
[2:54:20 PM] Lynne Shelton says: will look at the invoice again
[2:54:26 PM] KK says: ok
[2:55:20 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ot can’t be due to the goods being shipped because there is no shipment yet . . the goods are still here
[2:55:35 PM] Lynne Shelton says: no shipment note has been raised
[2:55:39 PM] KK says: ok
[2:56:14 PM] KK says: just to confiirm …are you checking SIN11243
[2:56:16 PM] KK says: ?
[2:56:25 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I am yes
[2:57:02 PM] KK says: silly question… have you attempted to create cash journal for this invoice?
[2:57:11 PM] Lynne Shelton says: will just check
[2:57:30 PM] KK says: ok
[3:00:09 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I have checked the cash journals for that day, but it doesn’t appear on there . . . however, it would disappear if we paid it by another method . . . the payment was on exactly the same day as the invoice was raised though, so it would not be necessary to move it from one cash journal to another
[3:00:36 PM] Lynne Shelton says: the other thing about this invoice is that it has posted to the invoice date . .  and not to the account date . . which is the right way around for us
[3:01:03 PM] KK says: but actually according to compiere posting logic it is wrong
[3:01:28 PM] Lynne Shelton says: oh great   . . it just gets better and better doesn’t it 🙂
[3:01:29 PM] KK says: all the posting correct column in your sheet is opposite to compiere way
[3:01:43 PM] Lynne Shelton says: oh
[3:02:14 PM] KK says: Date Invoiced  Compiere? Posting correct?
SIN11243 7/25/2007 No Yes
SIN9305 3/2/2007 Yes No
RIN11767 7/31/2007 Yes No
WIN7617 5/12/2007 Yes No
WIN7632 5/15/2007 No Yes
RIN10546 5/24/2007 Yes No
SIN10217 5/14/2007 No Yes
SIN10196 5/12/2007 No Yes
RIN10697 5/31/2007 No Yes
[3:02:53 PM] KK says: because compiere always use account date for posting ..not the transaction date
[3:03:20 PM] KK says: if you repost the same invoice then you can see that it will chnage the account date to 1st august
[3:03:40 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I see, so you could fix the posting date to go to our invoice date and not account date . . but you need fix this first, as there is an underlying problem . . . .
[3:03:49 PM] Lynne Shelton says: right
[3:04:02 PM] KK says: the following are solution
[3:04:07 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok
[3:05:01 PM] KK says: 1. Compiere will continue to post using account date (Compiere psting engine is powerful also no bug according to my knowledge) so if we need to distrub that engine
[3:05:08 PM] KK says: *need not
[3:05:14 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok
[3:05:40 PM] KK says: 2. Prevent the updating account date of invoice while raising cash journal
[3:05:51 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok
[3:06:19 PM] KK says: 3. if user change the account date then it will also modify the transaction date
[3:06:30 PM] Lynne Shelton says: good idea
[3:07:15 PM] KK says: 4. to identify all the sales work flow to find the problem for the invoices which posted wrongly
[3:08:43 PM] KK says: first 3 steps will solve this issue 90%
[3:08:57 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, we are unlikely to ever change the account date. In fact I know we won’t . . . would it be possible for the account date to be set at the document invoice date and then once the invoice is completed the account date will never change
[3:09:00 PM] KK says: but 4th step will ensure in future it never happen again
[3:09:26 PM] Lynne Shelton says: this will eliminate the need for steps 3 and 4
[3:09:39 PM] Lynne Shelton says: and possibly 2
[3:10:11 PM] KK says: currently it is happening
[3:10:22 PM] KK says: the default account date will be transaction date
[3:10:41 PM] KK says: only it will change while raising cash journnal (solution 1)
[3:10:53 PM] KK says: sorry solution 2
[3:11:22 PM] KK says: you got it
[3:11:27 PM] KK says: ?
[3:12:31 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I got it . . its just that there is that issue with the invoice changing its date after the event to match the order date
[3:12:58 PM] KK says: yes
[3:13:02 PM] Lynne Shelton says: If we can make sure that the date stays the same once the invoice is completed . . would that help?
[3:13:23 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I understand the cash journal change and you fix to that, by the way
[3:13:37 PM] KK says: if your sure that user will not change the accoutn date then it is ok
[3:14:01 PM] KK says: but still it will give some confusion if anything went wrong
[3:14:21 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I have just checked this with Wendy and we will never change the account date
[3:14:50 PM] KK says: so i feel step 2 and 3 is better way to prevent this issue
[3:14:51 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes I understand about the confusion, but I think it is easier to fix the transaction in time . . once it is done it is done . . .
[3:15:12 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, will read it again  . . . .
[3:17:14 PM] Lynne Shelton says: Have read it again and am discussing with Wendy
[3:17:20 PM] KK says: ok
[3:22:05 PM] Lynne Shelton says: Ok, have discussed this with Wendy . .  because these are Sales Invoices they will be fixed in time anyway . . . we have never had to change an account date and can’t see where we would have to . .
[3:22:22 PM] Lynne Shelton says: if there is an error then we can use a journal to fix it
[3:22:56 PM] Lynne Shelton says: so in view of this you can indeed lock the account date to the date invoiced . . to ensure that the dates always match and the postings happen at that point in time
[3:23:27 PM] Lynne Shelton says: it also has the benefit of making our sales invoices idiot proof – and none of our guys can just come along and change anything
[3:24:08 PM] Lynne Shelton says: be back in 10 mins
[3:24:20 PM] Lynne Shelton says: sorry!
[3:24:29 PM] KK says: ok no problem
[3:26:09 PM] KK says: So our task is to make sure that compiere always use the account date for posting, ensuring that trx date and acct date should always equal and  not to update the acct date from other process like cash journal creation etc
[3:30:10 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes please . . it that easier or harder?
[3:31:01 PM] KK says: we will send you the effort after finalyising all the tasks requirement
[3:31:22 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, thank you
[3:32:16 PM] KK says: Now I am in the process of preparing service request to fix your problem
[3:32:32 PM] KK says: so I think we have done with thsi tasks
[3:32:39 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes,  I think so
[3:32:42 PM] KK says: hold on let me open the task list
[3:32:47 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok
[3:33:18 PM] KK says: 1. Reporting –  waiting for your email
[3:33:22 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[3:33:57 PM] KK says: 2 and 3 account posting – requirement is clear
[3:34:11 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[3:34:13 PM] KK says: 4- transaction date-  just now completed
[3:34:18 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[3:35:00 PM] KK says: 5. balance sheet and trail balance – we have agrred to work combined to fix this issue
[3:35:54 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes, I’ve had an idea about this . . will discuss with Wendy, Alan and Jan and get back to you as soon as I can
[3:36:12 PM] KK says: ok
[3:36:49 PM] KK says: 6. cash journal
[3:37:29 PM] KK says: task 1 : to create the negative entry in cash journal for invoice which have paid already
[3:37:47 PM] KK says: task 2: provided work flow to reverse the cash journal
[3:37:48 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[3:37:50 PM] KK says: am i right?
[3:37:53 PM] Lynne Shelton says: yes
[3:37:55 PM] Lynne Shelton says: you are right
[3:38:00 PM] KK says: thanks
[3:38:32 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, will hopefully be able to get back to you on balance sheet and trial balance as soon as I’ve had chance to discuss and do some tests on reports . . .
[3:38:41 PM] Lynne Shelton says: working on that now
[3:38:52 PM] KK says: ok fine
[3:39:04 PM] KK says: when can I expect the reporting req?
[3:40:13 PM] Lynne Shelton says: difficult to determine . . I am keen for us to be in a position close to Consensus by tomorrow . . but think we may have to delay on that . . . as you will be waiting for information from us . . .
[3:40:24 PM] Lynne Shelton says: will chase them both up and see how it goes
[3:41:16 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I think some of the reports they only realise they need as they are going along, but I should be able to prepare a list of ones that come immediately to mind
[3:41:33 PM] KK says: I too. it would be helpful if we come to an agreement by tomorrow
[3:41:42 PM] Lynne Shelton says: indeed, I agree
[3:41:47 PM] Lynne Shelton says: will push them along
[3:42:22 PM] Lynne Shelton says: If we can come to an agreement on the other issues at least we can perhaps look at the reports afterwards
[3:42:27 PM] KK says: ok I will prepare the task break down list and internally we will come up with the effort for the task which we have finalised
[3:42:27 PM] Lynne Shelton says: but I will push them
[3:42:36 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, thanks for you efforts KK
[3:43:28 PM] KK says: ok Lynne.. I think we have done the pssoble things which we can 🙂
[3:43:44 PM] KK says: krish will continue with wendy or you for other details
[3:43:49 PM] Lynne Shelton says: I do too! Will ping you when I have info on the balance sheets
[3:43:53 PM] Lynne Shelton says: ok, thanks
[3:44:01 PM] KK says: ok thanks for your time
[3:44:10 PM] Lynne Shelton says: (y) bye for now
[3:44:16 PM] KK says: bye 🙂

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